The article questions whether Elliott Sober's arguments for group selection accurately explain the role of natural selection in evolution. It suggests that Sober's view implies that natural selection is a cause and can operate at different biological levels independently. However, comparing multi-level selection with selection and random drift shows that accurately measuring the contributions of different selective processes is crucial for distinguishing them. Sober's support for the Price approach to measuring selection contributions creates a dilemma: he must either acknowledge an interconnectedness between selection processes at different levels or deny that natural selection determines evolutionary change.